Gatsos

[xblader]

This is one for you JAWS. MCN has obtained photographic proof that gatsos are so inaccurate they double the bikes speed.Carlyons from Mi-Glamorgan had been clocked at 46 mph, when the camera partnership admit hes only doing 23 mph,they have withdrawn the allegation and given him a formal apology. NOW I do agree their is a lot of rubbish in MCN but we would be foolish to ignor all of it. Hey its our liecences they keep putting points on. Just have a read of this weeks MCN see what you think. c7u8

 

[Jaws]

Before you get too excited have you actually checked the info at all ?

Just cos they have published it means bugger all !! ( I speak from repeated experiences of total rubbish being printed )

Sorry to say that anything THEY print should always be taken with a pinch of salt at best... The latest issue seems to be the fairly massive misquoting of a speech a BRAKE rep gave..
Do a bit of a search back and you will find the info and the fact that the whole biking fraternity was up in arms over it..

Turned out the MCN person had completely twisted what was said around.

As I have said many times before, the sooner folk stop buying the rag and it goes under, the sooner we might get a decent organ !
At the moment no one is willing to start up another publication cos MCN is so strong ( with the backing of EMAP )

 

[Coggy]

There's a story on the front of todays "Daily Wail"(Sorry...Daily Mail) about it
A biker was clocked at 46mph but he was only doing 18mph...
%$fan

 

[Jaws]

Interesting... Perhaps I might even have believed if the figures had been the same.

Funny that two rags come up with a similar story within days of each other.. Or are we supposed to believe this is something new ? LOL !!

I am sorry guys.,, I know I should not be so anti but after years of absolute tosh in MCN it is hard to pick out what is the truth and what is the product of a fertile imagination..


But lets put this in to context..

So you get nicked for speeding. You go to court and plead not guilty, sighting the MCN as your proof.

I have a nasty feeling you will be leaving the court lighter in wallet and heavier in the points department !

As a matter of interest, I suspect also that the speed confirmation equipment in question is almost certainly not GATSOs but more likely laser based hand held or tripod mounted kit. ( which kinda points to how accurate the rest of the stories are likely to be ! LOL !! )

 

[xblader]

MCN

I shall sit back and watch Jaws, and see what happens.On adifferent note, i shall come and see you in the new year, may be buy some bits for the Bird, have a very good crimbo, and new year to you ALL:yo: Andy

 

[solorider]

gatsos are probably the only accurate method of catching speeders as the speed is calculated by the 2 photos taken at a set time and comparing the lines on the road,not the radar signals given out(that is only used to set the camera if a predefined speed is exceded).even the 2 wires across the road are only accurate on a single file of traffic,a mate of mine was nicked on these doing a claimed 64mph in a 40mph zone,he was actualy doing 40mph over taking a car doing 25mph but because his wheels crossed the lines at the same time as the car it gave an inacurate reading and he got a week ban because of it

 

[R2B2]

gatsos are probably the only accurate method of catching speeders as the speed is calculated by the 2 photos taken at a set time and comparing the lines on the road,not the radar signals given out(that is only used to set the camera if a predefined speed is exceded).

It doesn't actually work like that Solorider, from what I've learnt recently from the knowledgeable peeps on the Pepipoo website.

A few months ago I received an NIP as a result of a Gatso getting me. I took my case to Pepipoo because there was only one camera flash, which was confirmed by the rider behind me. This was easy to see by both of us because of low light conditions. I was convinced I had a defence because of only one picture, but it seems not!

What I have learnt from them is the Dopler Radar in the Gatso calculates and evidences your speed, and that is enough for them to proceed. Pictures are only taken as a secondary backup and to evidence your number plate. It doesn't matter if there is one flash, two flashes, or even nil flashes (the camera still activates), one picture or two pictures. (I've told this by Police too).

It seems I'm still nicked despite only one picture and there's nothing they can do or say to help me. My only chance was if there was an error in procedure by the Police/Safety Camera Partnership, which they checked for me, and there was not.

At least, this is what they are telling me. I hope they are right, as the only other alternative is to opt for a court hearing and plead not guilty. But they reckon I would loose.... and then the penalty is much harsher when you take it to court! Loose/loose situation, it seems. :cry:

 

[xblader]

All i am saying in this particular case the bloke was flashed at 46 mph. most gatso lines are 1.5 meters or 2 meters apart, three lines x 2 meters equals biker has traveled 6 meters in 0.5 seconds max speed equals 12 m/s equals 12 times 2.37 mph equals 26.84 mph. this is the calculations that was deducted from the 2 photos.and the camera partnership agrees with the photos and on that status have given the bloke a full apology and admited that the bus on the other side of the road in the photo may have cuased the error. under these curcumstances how any other times has this problem / error occured.they eror free are they...

 

[R2B2]

Xblader

Absolutely agree with you, not disputing that at all. The Carlyons case is one of those where the photographic evidence has quite rightly shown an error and got the bloke off what would have been an injustice (with the radar reflection from the bus).

I was just pointing out to Solorider that the photo's are not primarily evidential to the prosecuting side. The are only backup and evidence of Reg No, but they can also be used by the defendant (see next paragraph) to prove miscalculation/malfunction by the Dopler Radar.

Another point worth mentioning is the photo's can be used in defence IF you can get hold of them. Many Police forces/SCP's will not release them until you have completed and returned the NIP and later opted to take the case to court by way of the next form that arrives on your doormat. To take that route, you need to be VERY confident you know you are in the right because it's not until you've done this that you get the opportunity to see the photo's.

Catch 22!

 

[xblader]

yes i see your point, +1500 quid spare in your back pocket,that road would only taken if i was sure of my speed at the time. I am still pissed that gatsos, hand held, back of vans speed detection devies could be misleading,it could be a can of worms about to open have a nice crimbo mate Andy

 

[R2B2]

I am still pissed that gatsos, hand held, back of vans speed detection devies could be misleading

You bet! It's thought that many more readings are incorrect compared to those that get to be proved.

Still, as long as the fines keep rolling in, that's the most important thing eh?

 

[ericonblackbird]

It's thought that many more readings are incorrect compared to those that get to be proved.

I have viewed several of the full session videos that have been forced out of the Partnerships and they make very grim viewing. When I was alleged to have been caught speeding with 'evidence' gained by the dreaded LTI20-20 and Lastec recorder I obtained a Court Order to release to me the 'evidence'.......the Crown refused! Need I say more?

 

[Centaur]

C'mon Eric

I have viewed several of the full session videos that have been forced out of the Partnerships and they make very grim viewing. When I was alleged to have been caught speeding with 'evidence' gained by the dreaded LTI20-20 and Lastec recorder I obtained a Court Order to release to me the 'evidence'.......the Crown refused! Need I say more?

Tell us more!!!

 

[solorider]

something i found on the net

Double flash
In order to identify vehicles and license plates correctly under all circumstances, Gatsometer camera systems are fitted with more than one flash system. A flash unit inside the camera cabinet or mounted on the gantry briefly illuminates the license plate. The photo then has sufficient clarity and contrast even when taken into the sun. At night a second flash is needed to illuminate the vehicle itself from another angle. The night flash is positioned at the roadside a few metres in front of the camera

also worth checking as well
http://www.abd.org.uk/gatso_photo_checking.htm

 

[ericonblackbird]

Tell us more!!!

Well simply the LTI20-20 is a pile of poo!
Being a laser it can only 'measure' distance and relies on pulses to give time and distance - in a lab this can be made to work accurately but on the roads it is very difficult to gain accurate results.
I have seen (on partnership videos) targeted vehicles being given the speed of a vehicle on the other side of a dual carriageway (+ and - figures) and fine examples of 'slip' which when you calculate the actual speed from road positions show much lower actual speeds. Then you throw in 'misuse'........the list goes on.
I always disputed the 'alleged' speed against me and stupidly thought that I would be able to see the evidence against me, it took 18 months of going to Court (on a regular basis) and although the case has never been discontinued it is not being progressed after I obtained the Court Order so I cannot ever see the evidence! Now I have to say what don't they want me to see?
Small note on Gatso's, it is illegal to enhance a numberplate, so if it is not readable on the photos, they cannot enhance in order to bring a prosecution.

Oh and MCN were correct when they reported that no camera had ever been tested on motorcycles.

Regards